Posts by Half banana

13

Meaning of Luke 9:49,50

by truthlover123 in

these two verses indicate that "others" were preaching in jesus' name and when the apostles reported it to him, he said "let him alone for he who is with us is not against us".... since the wtbts states they are the only way to salvation, what does this scripture mean?

others have the right to salvation as well - straight from jesus' mouth- as long as they preach ( in the verse it says expel demons as well) using jesus name?

Half banana

Mithraism was indeed a christ cult. The cult of the christ existed before Jesus and the earliest christian literature of the first and second century never mentions him and only uses the term "the lord". Mithra was clearly a god-man figure and saviour as was Jesus. He was shown as a handsome beardless youth wearing a Phrygian cap, depicted with a lamb around his shoulders and known as "The good shepherd". He was associated with the act of killing bulls for the redemptive value of their blood. The rituals and beliefs of Mithraism were critical in developing synchretic Roman Christianity since the religion had great influence in Rome especially in the important quarter of the military. Much "christian doctrine" came from this source including the Papacy and sacrificial death of the christ Mithra and the symbolic bread and wine as well as heaven and hell and Biblical eschatology.The trope of the god-man saviour was a well established expectation among temple worshippers with a pedigree going back many centuries before Jesus.

Orphism too has many resonances with the dying and rising God Dyonisus, another christ figure. Orpheus himself like Jesus going down to Hades for three days and arising again.

It is very popular to dismiss the parallels of the ancient christs because primarily it is uncomfortable information at least as far as traditional Christianity views it. Secondly there is little remaining literature and much of the connecting information has been gleaned through sculptural artefacts and yet a convincing path of ancient belief can be deduced including from the written Classical sources which promote the idea of the saviour, born of a virgin whose life was sacrificed at Easter to redeem believing mankind.

24

Question? How Many Hours of Field Service Does it Take

by new boy in

jw
friends

currently, to create one new jehovah's witness convert?.

Half banana

The issue is how much JW time is spent preaching and to what effect in terms of new recruits.

The 2017 figure from JW statistics is 13,880 hours spent in the field for one new baptism. (Thank you Giordano) That includes time spent on Bible studies with JW sprogs born in captivity--who are now something like an 80% majority with 20% of baptisms being new converts. Even this might be over optimistic, it may be a 90%10% split.

The "born-ins" will receive around say seven years indoctrination at one hour per week. This amounts to an average of around a mere 350 hours of preaching as a lifetime total Bible study for JW offspring who get to be baptised.

Relatively speaking it doesn't then take that many hours for a "born in" Bible study to get to the baptism stage as already mentioned so if the average hours preaching before one new baptism is 13,880 that must mean that for the remaining 20% converts, those figures are immensely more than the already high average of 13,880. I'm guessing 25,000/30,000 hours-- just for one convert!

From a practical aspect it would be cheaper for JW HQ to pay people to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

From a field service point of view, it is no longer worth going from door to door, it's nigh on a complete a waste of time. Who on earth spends this amount of effort for such dismal returns?

Perhaps this is why eventually most cults don't proselytise but just plod on in cloaked obscurity, breeding new recruits within their families, fighting invisible foes but smug with the feeling of certainty in their divine assumptions?

13

Meaning of Luke 9:49,50

by truthlover123 in

these two verses indicate that "others" were preaching in jesus' name and when the apostles reported it to him, he said "let him alone for he who is with us is not against us".... since the wtbts states they are the only way to salvation, what does this scripture mean?

others have the right to salvation as well - straight from jesus' mouth- as long as they preach ( in the verse it says expel demons as well) using jesus name?

Half banana

Truthlover, you are implying that all the Bible content has significant meaning for everyone. A better question to ask is "Why was this text included in the Bible?"

In the first four centuries there were 'christ' cults galore in the Roman Empire. Mithraism, Orphism and Gnostics to mention a few. Many of of the newer sects became in competition with each other for dominance and authority. In the early fourth century, as a political manoeuvre it was Emperor Constantine's desire to unify all religious belief under the imperial umbrella and eventually all were forbidden except one; the cult of Jesus as interpreted by the Bishops of Rome. Constantine (a saint in the Eastern Church) was a ruthless and unconscionable human being but thought that his mother's religion could bring him luck in battle, so he favoured the sect she belonged to. Constantine made sure that the Bishops greatly modified the Jesus story to make its appeal universal and acceptable to all prevailing mainstream temple worshippers and then later, by imperial decree all opposing ideas and folk beliefs were outlawed and their literature destroyed. Thus began Christianity.

With an understanding of the social and political history of the time and the recognition that the Bible is not "inspired of God", it is possible to read the early texts of Jesus-Christianity as competing sects who were defending their ideological 'turf'. This is why the issues of loyalty and heresy are clearly present in the NT. A good example is where Paul has one of his hissy fits recorded in Gal 1;6-8.

36

Need Help - How do I refute this???

by HappyBlessedFree in

so i was talking with my husband about all the things the organization is doing ie.

hiding pedophiles, lying about what 1914 was etc.

so his response was that the nation of israel had times when they weren’t doing the right thing, but it was still gods chosen organization.. another topic we were talking about was disfellowshipping.

Half banana

Happy Blessed Free, you have been given here some good reasons for things to reply to your husband's arguments but I would like to suggest another approach which might be worth considering.

All Jehovah's Witnesses have been radicalised. Their beliefs ARE their life.

That means that logic is not their guiding force and however rational you are in answering criticisms, the mind of a radicalised person has been immunised against reason and the meaning of evidence.

A radicalised person has decided that whatever the cost or consequences of their belief, as a matter of personal pride and achievement, they are sticking with it. They are hoping for the future benefits of their belief and will only look for confirmation in the words of the governing body and the apparently united beliefs and conduct of their fellow Witnesses.

What is the antidote? Wouldn't we all like to know!-- but understanding why a person is leaning on whimsical beliefs as a substitute for a normal evidence based world view is a start.

The average-- but by no means all JWs-- are humble people with poor education and little of the worlds wealth and means. This is of course the ideal follower mentality cultivated by the GB.

SO, these things might work

1 Get to know why his life is so emotionally or psychologically precarious that he resorts to JW fantasy teachings. For example, a fear of death is often an unspoken motive for religious belief.

2 Demonstrate by your own considerate and thoughtful dealings with him so that he will recognise in time that he has a precious partner worth listening to and that the JW promises are not as good as his marriage.

In other words refuting a wrong belief is not necessarily the way forward with a radicalised fundamentalist. To contradict their viewpoint is like telling them that their whole life is a waste of time.

11

Terry's Recipe of the Day : Vegetarian Pancakes

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

terry's recipe of the daybreakfast: vegetarian pancakes!.

1. free range banana (sliced)2. a euthanized egg white (no embryo)3. kosher pancake mix4.

hard cold water from freshly wiped faucet5.

Half banana

I have a couple of problems with this recipe, is that free range banana corn fed? More importantly, water from the faucet (or tap as we Brits would say) What! town water--as it comes, exposed to all the bugs and pollution man can muster? My paper thin sensitivities are somewhat abused by this when it is not difficult to double filter before use. I'll have you know my body is a temple.

12

"The messiah" was to come from the "line of David" right??

by stuckinarut2 in

a huge realization hit me the other day while listening to a podcast that discussed the "lineage of jesus".. according to the bible, "the messiah" was to come through king davids lineage.

but, if you wade through the entire chapter of matthew that lists "son of ...son of...son of...etc", it becomes obvious that jesus did not come through davids line at all!.

in fact, that lineage lists jospeh (mary's husband) as being in davids line.

Half banana

If we are concerned with verifiable evidence we cannot use ancient genealogies, many of which include legendary or mythical ancestors. From a logical point of view (I'm being brutal here) how can we talk about the Bible as if it were factual or as if its prophecies were going to be fulfilled? Prophecy was always used to instill awe in the the poor sheeplike dependents of cult communities and the predictions made were never any practical use to any listener.

As the GB now recognise 'prophecies' have to be re-interpreted after the event. What use is that! Actually it is an admission that prophecy is useless. . .

I would add that by considering the dynamics of first and second century temple religion with many cults all seeking market dominance, the two lineages (yes belt and braces!) of Jesus would have been drawn up in an attempt to legitimise the particular god-man hero of the sect promoting Jesus as their christ. After all there were "many lords and many christs".

62

OK, We Need To Talk About The Crazy New Great Tribulation Video...

by pale.emperor in

if you haven't seen it already, skip to 1:14:30 in lloyds video and watch the craziness unfold.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2y7f7-k5wo.

i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.. they're digging themselves a great hole here, in about 30 years time they'll be claiming this video was a mere "speculation" and that "some people" got the wrong ideas..

Half banana

But Slimboy, 1919 has no obvious significance to anyone apart from the GB. OK, it was predicted in the Watchtower that by 1914 they would see a paradise on Earth under Christ's heavenly rule. Like all WT predictions it was entirely wrong and in this case the very opposite happened to what was promised --world war-- but 1914 was a memorable fixture to hook ideas on.

If 1919 were to be a pivotal date it has no secular marker nor can it be linked to the Bible without devious contortions. If there were such a fantasy as "true religion" and that it began with the inheritors of Russell's teachings in 1919, then why does not everyone stick by the hallowed beliefs of that time and all enjoy the fruits of this divine outpouring? JWs most certainly don't and that would make Russellites the best candidates for the " true religion".

The year 1919 however was indeed significant for the leadership of the Bible Students; they were almost miraculously saved from bankruptcy that year. The cynic in me believes they think this was a signal from their tribal god.

62

OK, We Need To Talk About The Crazy New Great Tribulation Video...

by pale.emperor in

if you haven't seen it already, skip to 1:14:30 in lloyds video and watch the craziness unfold.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2y7f7-k5wo.

i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.. they're digging themselves a great hole here, in about 30 years time they'll be claiming this video was a mere "speculation" and that "some people" got the wrong ideas..

Half banana

What have the WT org got left to keep the flock on board? The prophetic hopes have run their course and still no Armageddon, not the slightest hint of divine manifestation anywhere. The goal posts forever wandering off the field into the future. The only tactic left is to ratchet up the fear to heighten the tension.

This is how doomsday cults come to their natural end.

81

Are You Horrifed if Someone Goes Into a “Massage Parlor”?

by minimus in

jw
friends

yesterday, robert kraft, the owner of the new england patriots, got busted for getting a massage and more.

they say there is another more high profile person who also got busted.. does this stuff upset you that some men have gone into a massage parlor for possibly more than a massage?

?.

Half banana

Are you horrified that someone goes into a massage parlour: No.

Are you horrified that people put beliefs above the sanctity of life: Yes.

@Tobyjones you are spouting about a subject you have no information on. The understanding is that around 17 people in one thousand are sexually ambiguous. Men with XY chromosomes can have a vagina and there are women who are genetically female i.e with XX chromosomes who are born with a penis. Read up on the children called the Guevadoces of The Dominican Republic. Please don't think in such simplistic terms like a JW or Mr Trump does, the world is more interesting than you imagine.

15

Jephthah's daughter : A shining example of singleness

by Diogenesister in

really watchtower?

jephthah's daughter as an example of what a girl wants to be when she grows up??.

a burnt offering?!!.

Half banana

What authority have the GB members to dictate to others not to have children?

Russell's marriage was celibate but he showed interest in certain other women. Joseph Frankly Ratherflawed was married but not to his constant female companion. Knorr married late and Franz was too interested in calculating the end of the world.

A cult with a history of nutty leaders.